Since one of the two U.S. Forest Service DC-3 TPs retired in 2012 and was sold in 2013, there has been speculation about how many years the last USFS DC-3 TP would continue to haul smokejumpers.
It has been 23 years since the two aircraft had their radial piston engines replaced with turbines in 1991 by Basler.
The remaining DC-3 TP is 71 years old. USFS spokesperson Jennifer Jones said, “Economic, operational and risk analyses have shown that the DC-3 TP has fulfilled its useful life as a smokejumper platform.”
When we asked if the rumors are true that the last DC-3 TP will retire in 2015, Mrs. Jones said it will be replaced by one of the 15 C-23Bs that the USFS recently acquired from the Army, “but no precise date has been set for that yet.”
The C-23B, due to begin transitioning into the USFS fleet in 2016, has issues with high density altitude, and some pilots have questioned how useful it will be at high altitude smokejumper bases such as West Yellowstone and Silver City. We asked Mrs. Jones about this, and she said the USFS owns two De Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otters and contracts for two others. After the transition to the C-23B the agency will retain the two Twin Otters they own, “to ensure the capability to perform short field/backcountry airstrip and high density altitude missions.”
Current forest management practices jeopardize forest management objectives.
Blaming aircraft and downloading due to aircraft performance to meet those objectives is pretty petty and probably has nothing to do with forest management.
Gets all back to Congress and the leadership at USFS for lack of aviation acumen, accepting the NEPA and 1970’s land management laws, lack of hazardous fuel reduction projects which probably would have been cheaper in the long run.
Guess those forest objectives may have be rewritten so as to accept the download of the C23B as a response criteria to fit the mission.
Otherwise, it is back to Trade-a-Plane looking for newer airframes or designing a new SJ aircraft……….which I would imagine is not in many USFS forest budgets
Could I be correct in this thinking……cuz there needs to be some thinking done in the USFS and Congress aviation arena..
Downloading is problematic. A forest may request eight SMJs because it believes that it will take that many firefighters to safely manage their incident. Being unable to immediately provide that many SMJs at once jeopardizes the forest’s management objectives, is more expensive, potentially creates an escaped fire situation, and finally but most importantly could jeopardize firefighter safety. It is a big deal.
Leo
I am not sure how to respond to your comment. I qualify as a professional Sherpa pilot but I am not chuckling. However I am thinking of P. T. Barnum who is often (incorrectly) attributed to have originated the phrase “There is a sucker born every minute”.
Even if you eliminate the 175 pounds of seats (seats for 10; 5 Simulas @ 35#ea), performance does not improve appreciatively. The airframe can’t be lightened the 2000 pounds that would be required to improve performance.
Roger
I won’t
I suspect not many USArmy or USAF, or many just as professional Sherpa drivers read this website or if they do….are probably chuckling.
When it all comes down to it……the USFS gets what it is handed to to them by Congressional action through NDAA 2014.
Now if folks don’t like it, AMARG could scrap em or push off through auction
Then…….we all would be crying Gov waste…..if you SJ’s do not like the C23B, as well as Gov paid pilots…….think of us who need or would fly nearly anything in good to great shape……like these that were serviced by both military or civilian folk who probably could attest to the viability of the ship
If the USFS SJ has to get used to downloads….then so be it……
Otherwise, how would y’all like troop seats….hear those are pretty light!!!!
I recently saw an add that has the first USFS C47TP for sale and is still in USFS markings, just a beautiful aircraft. It is currently in Canada and has an asking price right at 5 million.
Seventy-one year-old aircraft!!! Ha!!! The Washington Office USFS aviation leadership refuses to accept or possibly understand that Basler Turbo-Conversion zero-timed Region One’s DC-3T when it was literally rebuilt in 1991. The only thing they can think of is a piston-driven airplane it once was. Even airframes on the two Twin Otters the FS owns is older than N115Z, yet you don’t hear the WO squaking about the aging aircraft issue with those two aircraft. West Yellowstone SMJs, look forward to serious downloads when the temperature exceeds 75 degrees. The only reason the C23Bs have been successful is that they were primarily used at elevations at or near sea level. Finally, if the DC-3T goes away will one of the twin otters be permanently based in R-1. Don’t hold your breath.
While I feel bad about the possible DC3TP outcome….
Let us ask the real operators of the C23B
The US Army and Air Force about what pieces of junk they are…….slow but hardly junk.
Like I said at the other fire website……while everyone is worried about West Yellowstone and Silver City operations
The USFS is hardly operating fanjeeeeeet service with any of their SJ ships no matter how hard they try.
Maybe an SJ or two ought to become aeronautical engineers and invent or cobble together a new jumpship….
The current livery of CASA, Twotters, Dorniers, and C23 hVe done a yeomans job of aerial delivery of folks and cargo even before they were designed for SJ ops
Hey …I know let’s strap CF34 engines ….like on the A10…..strap em on the C23B and then let’s hear the bitchin how the aircraft is then……
Everyone I know in the USAF that flew them concurs with what I said. If not, why are they in storage if there so good? Even the Air National Guard didn’t want them. The motors may be good but the aircraft as a whole is a piece of JUNK!
Do a government paper trail and see the parties involved in the deal and when you get to the end you’ll know why the USFS is getting these aircraft! Pure politics.
Fair trade – 1 very good aircraft for 15 pieces of junk!