12 Questions for Tony Duprey

This is the fifth in a new series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Tony Duprey, who presently is a Chief Officer with the Chumash Tribal Fire Department. He works as a call when needed ATGS / ATS (ASM ATGS), HLCO for Federal incident management teams. When he retired from the U.S. Forest Service in 2005 he was a Battalion Chief on the Los Padres National Forest in California, and was on a California incident management team as an Air Attack Group Supervisor.

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Tony Duprey
Tony Duprey

Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
“Smokey Val”, Frank Smokey Vallesillo.. USFS Air Attack Hemet Tanker Base. Smokey was one of the first “Air Attacks” I became aware of when I was a young squad boss on the Los Prietos Hotshots. I distinctly remember our superintendent, Mark Linane, telling me, “Smokey is one of the few air attacks you can trust”. Down the road, Smokey became a mentor to me as a young air attack.

Other memorable names that molded my early ATGS years – Walter “P” Johnson, Jan Reifenberg, Steve Maxwell, Greg Hock, Peter Bell, Teddy Mundell, Ray Skeels, Rich “Doc” Watson, Jim Leslie, Gary Hardy, Jim Chestnut, Ray Sauceda, Kenny Duvall, Mike Lynn.

I cannot say enough good things about Sheryl Porter Woods. She is the only reason I succeeded as the Santa Barbara Tanker Base Manager. Extremely memorable experiences working with her at Santa Barbara!!

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Adhere to your training; remember the basics, as there is no such thing as advanced firefighting, stay ever mindful to keep your SA up. Watch and re watch the BLM fire refreshers in which Dr. Ted Putnam is interviewed.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Communication between Fire and Aviation at all levels. Active Listening.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
The Aerial resources may seem to have the best seat in the house, but their field of focus can be extremely narrow.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Aerial firefighters are just that … brother and sister aerial firefighters. Too many government employees at all levels view tanker and helicopter pilots as just contractors. They are brother and sister aerial firefighters.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
Purpose built CL-415’s. When water is close, they are hard to beat. Why they are not used more in the western US is beyond me. The question asks “air tankers” but one cannot ignore the fact that the Erickson S-64 Sky Crane is the ground firefighter “weapon of choice”.

That being said, the P-3 Orion was a Cadillac. I have worked with the DC-10 and am impressed with its capabilities. It is an extremely effective initial as well as extended attack tool. I have worked with the BAE-146 that was on a provisional contract last year and see the drop system improving. The pilots tell me that the platform is fantastic for the role. I am looking forward to seeing the other companies “next gen” BAE’s, RJ’s and others. Hopefully the contracts are let soon.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?

  • ATGS – Shrike Commander, Turbine Commander, Cessna 421, Cessna 340, Cessna Skymaster, Beechcraft King Air, Bell 209 Cobra, OV-10
  • ASM – Beechcraft King Air
  • HLCO / Intelligence – Bell 206, Hughs 500, Bell 209 FireWatch Cobra, Bell 204, Bell 212
  • Ferry flights – Bell 206, Bell 204, Bell 212, Bell 214, Aerospatiale Puma / Super Puma, Lama, Allouette, Sikorsky Blackhawk (military operated), Sikorsky S-58T

Favorite aircraft –

  • ATGS and ASM- Beechcraft King Air… Because – Twin engine TURBOPROP, reliability, single engine performance, load capability (trainee’s etc) and support by current manufacturer
  • HLCO / Intelligence – Bell 209 FireWatch Cobra – Because – performance, visibility, contractor and industry support

Air tankers – Authorized – Flew in the DC-10 as an observer on drops.

Unauthorized – flew in the P3, C-130, DC4, P2V, SP2H as a young air attack as an observer on drops.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
When I was on the hotshots in the late ‘70’s, we were on a fire on the Sequoia NF and one of the crewpersons on the crew found a horny toad while we were constructing fire line. We were flown off the fire at the end of a few days of spiking out from a helispot in a Sikorsky-S-58T. On the first load to be flown out was the crewperson (he went on to become a smokejumper and lead plane pilot) who had adopted the horny toad. After the helicopter lifted and had gained about 200 feet, a horny toad supported by a red bandana and parachute cord fashioned into a parachute and harness, appeared underneath the S-58T. No streamers appeared first, and the “jumper” missed the LZ (helispot) by about 50 feet landing in a draw below the helispot. When we rescued the jumper horny toad we discovered him hung up in a Manzanita bush without a letdown rope. We cut him free and he eventually was released back into the wild after he made the journey back to our home base with us.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Too many yet not enough! As an aerial supervisor in excess of 3,000… and that is probably low…

Your favorite books about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Assistant Helishot Foreman on the San Marcos Helishots, H-528, CA-LPF in 1978.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
I love my iPhone, my iPad mini, my Mac Air, my Garman 496, my Kindle, but I can’t live without my fishing gadgets.

12 Questions for Kenneth Perry

This is the fourth in a new series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Kenneth Perry, Chief, Air Tactical Supervisors Standards and Safety with the Bureau of Land Management Aerial Supervision Module Program

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Kenneth Perry
Kenneth Perry

Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
Can’t remember his name. He was a helicopter pilot that on 7/7/07 was completely taking charge of a burn over, as we arrived on scene. Calming the folks down, and dropping water dangerously close to exploding propane tanks. I put him in for a AirWard… They didn’t give him one.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Apply their training, yet be conservative. And learn. That goes for their second, 3rd 4th etc., etc.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Standardization in communication. We say we have it in aerial firefighting and aerial supervision, but I don’t think we really do. Accountability from a personal and peer standpoint is also lacking, in my opinion. I also think that the job of aerial supervision should be treated with the complexity and importance that it deserves, when it comes to training, competency and currency.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Don’t rely on them. In many areas of the country it is still common for firefighters to decide tactics based on aircraft support.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
We learn things when we are ready to learn them.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
Designed or manufactured? Designed…. There aren’t any unless you want to tank a 787… Manufactured… I’m not sure if any airtanker that we are currently using, beside the 800 series Air Tractors were manufactured in the last 20 years. Of course there are later versions of the P-3 and C-130, but we won’t see them. Hence a major issue we face now. I’ve worked with the DC-10 quite a bit, and though there are some naysayers , I find it very effective. I’m looking forward to the next-gen, if it happens.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
Tough question… You name it, I’ve probably done a mission in it. There are, however caveats. I will not fly a mission in a single engine A/C anymore. My favorite for my job (ASM) is the Beechcraft King Air. For ATGS, most certainly the turbine Commander.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
Me and another guy once hid rubber snakes and spiders all over the airplane of a newly minted P-2V captain. Scared the crap out of him. That was pretty darn funny.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Wow… Let’s be conservative… say 200 hrs a year X 14 years = 2800 hrs, although I’m sure it’s more.

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
Never really been a big fan about reading about what I do. My favorite movie was, of course, Firestorm with Howie Long!!!!!

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Smokejumper.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
Got an iPhone. Pretty much need that.

 

12 Questions for Kenny Chapman

This is the third in a new series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Kenny Chapman, a Senior Firefighting Pilot of an S-64 Aircrane, flying with Erickson Air-Crane, Inc.

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Kenny ChapmanWho is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
Sonny Morrison, Rusty Foster, Vern Shindele, Bob Forbes, Walt Darran. I flew my first fire with Sonny, my first full contract with Rusty and my last fixed-wing contract with Vern. All had the patience to teach and tolerate a beginner. Bob has been in the business longer than anyone else. That says volumes alone about his abilities. Walt has always been a force in trying to make the business safer, more modern and more professional. There are too many others to mention here, many that have given their lives in the line of duty.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Simple. No fire is worth someone’s life. Remember your training.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Listen to the people in the field, both in the air and on the ground. They know better than anyone what we need and how we need to do it. If you are retired from another agency quit trying to turn what we are doing into what you used to do.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Good communication and visibility when you are on the line. Mirror flashes, panel markers and quality radio calls can save a great deal of time. Visiting any of the tanker or helitack bases also helps immensely by putting faces with names and learning the other person’s job.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
How to better make use of the standby time.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
I think the industry obsesses with the idea of converting something when there are three new production aircraft available right now. The Erickson Air-Crane S-64, the Canadair CL-415 and the 802 Air Tractor on both wheels and floats. That said I think the MD-87 and BAE/RJ that are coming out have great potential. I think later versions of the C-130 and P-3 will make fine tankers. They have already proven themselves. They just need the later airframes.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
PBY, S-2, Bell 206 Series, Sikorsky S-61 and S-64 on fires. The S-64 Skycrane is my favorite by far because of the amazing capabilities it has and because it is the one I have the most experience in. The PBY would be my second choice.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
Flattening a chicken coop on the island of Othonoi Greece with a drop and watching the chickens shoot out unharmed.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Around 4500 out of 16200.

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
The Pine Tree Shield, Stephen Pyne’s Fire on the Rim, [Steve Smith’s] Fly the Biggest Piece Back, Tall Timber Pilots.

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Co-pilot on a PBY for Hemet Valley Flying Service 1971.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
iPad with ForeFlight and OzRunways

 

TBM photos

TBM dropping on a fire

Seeing Walt Darran’s photo of him cranking a TBM at Hemet reminded me of some photos I took of some TBM’s dropping on fires in southern California in 1972. In those days there was not much of an effort to get firefighters out of the area when air tankers were dropping. Of course today, instead of carrying 300 gallons, air tankers are dropping 600 to 20,000 gallons.

TBM dropping on a fire

TBM dropping on a fire

 

Air tanker drop

Cleaning retardant off a 35mm camera while you’re fighting fire is not the easiest thing in the world.

12 Questions for Jerome Laval

This is the second in a new series of articles on FireAviation.com, featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Jerome Laval who is an Air Tanker Captain flying S-2Ts for CALFIRE.

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Jerome Laval
Jerome Laval

Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known?

  • All Airtanker Instructor pilots because they’re willing to share their experience, knowledge, tips & tricks with passion and dedication. By their fantastic attitude and trust in the candidate’s skills, they accept the risks to show the way to survive, be efficient and safe. It’s a real honor to fly and learn from them. Thanks to them, new Airtanker pilots will carry on the legacy of this unique flying mission.
  • Aerial fire fighters; Where else do you find a such a bunch of characters?….

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?

  • Focus, be aware and don’t get excited.
  • Remember your training and don’t be too creative.
  • Don’t push your own limits or your airplane’s limitations.
  • Breathe deeply, think and stay ahead of the game.
  • ….and most importantly; the main objective is for you to come back. Every time.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Listen and take advice from experienced people who actually do the job. Use basic common sense as your guide for making any decision.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Tactics and Radio communication: keep it simple. Visit the Bases, talk to pilots, share Fire stories. Try to understand other point of views.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
The “Secret of Boredom”: waiting hours, days, weeks for action… After 17 years, I’m still looking for to learn this secret.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?

  • Lockheed C-130 H, J “Hercules” with RADS (Constant Flow-Gravity/4000 Gallons tank system )
  • Lockheed/AleniaC-27 J“Spartan”with RADS (Constant Flow-Gravity/2000 Gallons tank system )
  • ….and a purpose designed and built Airtanker (3000 to 4000 Gallons). Finally!

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?

  • LockheedC-130A “Hercules”/RADS1. 3000 Gallons : Fast, maneuverable, efficient. Fantastic Large AirTanker!
  • Douglas DC-4 (C-54) / 2000 Gallons; Best learning fire fighting platform. Magnificent Airplane!
  • Lockheed P-3 “Orion”/RADS2. 3000 Gallons: Fast, maneuverable, efficient. Great Large AirTanker !
  • Rockwell OV-10 “Bronco”/Air Attack: Incredible airplane! Favorite cockpit! Perfect for the mission
  • Grumman S-2T “Turbo Tracker”/1200 Gallons Constant Flow. Ideal Initial Attack AirTanker!

Favorite: hard to say. Great times and memories in each one.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
Not seen but heard; Some short, really funny replies or comments over the VHF Radio. (the kind you just wish YOU thought of it and said it)

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
3,000

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
Books written by Linc Alexander. In 1967 he wrote Pilots Notes for Fire Bombing; a guide for pilots. In 1972 he wrote Air Attack on Forest Fires which became the world’s definitive manual on aerial fire-fighting techniques by aircraft. His new book Fire Bomber Into Hell: A Story of Survival in a Deadly Occupation, is a must read for anyone wanting to immerse themselves in this great adventure.

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
1996. Copilot on a C-130A Air Tanker operated by T&G, Chandler AZ and contracted by the French Government during fire season

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
Smartphone, Laptop, Camera, Books…

12 Questions for Walt Darran

We are beginning a new series of articles on FireAviation.com, featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

We begin the series with one of the most experienced and well-respected pilots, Walt Darran. Walt has retired from active duty as an S2T air tanker pilot with CALFIRE/DynCorp, and is now the Safety Committee Chairman of the Associated Aerial Firefighters and also serves as the Chairman of their Board of Directors.

Here are Walt’s responses to our questions:

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Walt Darran cranking air tanker at Hemet
Walt Darran starting Tanker 68, a TBM at Hemet

Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
Don Ornbaum, airtanker pilot. In addition to his outstanding stick & rudder skills, Don’s ability to succinctly, powerfully, and without reservation present his ideas, both positive and critical, based on many years of aerial firefighting, which added greatly to the legend and store of Tribal Knowledge in the early days of aerial firefighting.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Think. Never forget the option to just say “no”.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Two-way communication; outreach to firefighters in the field, both boots on the ground and aircrews, preferably one-on-one face time. There is currently a severe disconnect. Desk-bound managers at Fire & Aviation occasionally riding jumpseat on live missions, and maybe living out of a suitcase attached to an airtanker for 3-4 months at a time away from home, would help close the gap in their understanding and empathy.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Better communication. Visit your local airbase occasionally and have a cup of coffee with the aircrews. Better yet, call and debrief after an incident with suggestions (or even praise!) about a specific drop or incident. Check into airtanker.org; consider joining Associated Aerial Firefighters.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
“Lessons Learned” —Tribal Knowledge; now available in NTSB accident reports, NAFRI I and II, Cal Fire Safety seminars, and airtanker.org forum and archives. Experience is one way of learning, but it’s not always the safest, most effective, or most efficient way.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
If I had to pick only the two most cost-effective, flexible, Initial Attack aircraft that are FAA certified I’d have to say the Sikorsky S70C Firehawk and the Airtractor AT802AF (lots of them, all over the place, real IA, on “exclusive use” contracts, not CWN; including the Wipaire FireBoss amphibian option). Bombardier CL415 and AW319 are close behind. C130J with MAFFS II is OK for surge, but probably cost-prohibitive, and not as effective/efficient as a C130 with RADS.

Remanufactured, or newly converted, choices would include BAe146 (and RJ85), Erickson Sky Crane, DC10, B747, Grumman S2T, DeHavilland Dash 8-Q400, and C130H with RADS. Beriev BE200, Shinmaywa US-2, and Kamov KA-32A11BC have potential if/when FAA certified and given adequate OEM support. But they are all just tools in the tool box—each works well if, and only if, dispatched in a timely manner, then properly applied by a proficient crew in the appropriate situation.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
Flown on fires: Grumman TBM, Grumman Ag-Cat, Grumman S2A/T, Stearman PT-17, Lockheed P2V-5/7, Beech D18, MELEX Dromader M18T, Consolidated PBY5A, Fairchild C119C, Douglas B26, Douglas C54E. Carded on DC7B. Flight time in (airline/military, not airtanker conversions) Lockheed L100 Electra, DeHavilland DH4 Caribou, MD80 (series), DC10-10/30, Douglas AD4 Skyraider, Pilatus Tirbo-Porter. Airtanker evaluation flights, with drops, in BAe146-200, DC10-10 (jumpseat on fires), Airtractor 802 AF, and FireBoss. Loved them all, but felt most at home in S2A and S2T. The S2T has a big advantage in reliability, tank system, capacity, speed, maneuverability, performance, and comfort.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
Joe Satrapa describing to a reporter how a Heavenly vision of John Wayne told him to open the overhead hatch in his S2T, piss on a rag, and use it to clean his windshield in flight (after the retardant from the previous airtanker drop had totally obscured his cockpit vision).

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
2,646

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?

  1. Firebombers Into Hell, Linc Alexander.
  2. Air Attack on Forest Fires, Alexander Linkewich (Linc Alexander).
  3. Firecrew, Ben Walters with Kelly Andersson.

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Pilot for Hemet Valley Flying Service, 1971.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
GPS, TCADS [a collision avoidance system], iPhone with lotsa apps, air conditioning. Wish list; GPS moving map display with IR (Max-Viz) SVS overlay, ARINC with printer, auto-pilot, Electronic Flight Bag on iPad, Appareo Flight Reconstruction System. Folding gas-powered motor scooter.