More details possibly emerge about air tanker’s hazardous exit out of drop area

BAe-146 air tanker hazardous retardant drop near miss
Screenshot from the video below of BAe-146 air tanker.

We posted a video on August 14 of a BAe-146 air tanker dropping retardant on a fire. While exiting the area the aircraft flew closely over a ridge stirring up dust on the ground. It generated many comments, with one person writing “it doesn’t appear to be a problem” while others considered it a good cautionary learning opportunity.

Yesterday one of our readers sent us information about a Safecom that may or may not be related to this incident. The report was filed August 1, 2019 by the crew of a BAe-146 about an incident that occurred July 1, 2019.

Here is the complete narrative:

While conducting retardant operations I descended below a ridge crossing altitude. This was NOT on purpose. I tunnel visioned the drop, and continued down. This was a little fill in spot and I was really focused on finishing the line. As I stated, this was NOT on purpose. We{crew} debriefed and talked about what happened, and of course, how to prevent this type of screw up. Thanks

The “Corrective Action” was presumably written later by someone in aviation management:

Crew will review SOP`s, CRM, etc. RASM: Glad to see the crew realized and admitted what occurred. Hope to see others follow suit as narratives like this remind us all to be diligent.

Cutting it close on a fire retardant drop

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Ryan. Typos or errors, report them HERE.

A shocking drop by a BAe-146

BAe-146 retardant drop
A BAe-146 exits the target area after making a retardant drop. Screenshot from the video below.

At the end of this video of a retardant drop by Neptune’s Tanker 01, a BAe-146, you will hear a four-letter word. After watching, you will fully understand why.

Did you notice the dust being kicked up as the aircraft skimmed over the ridge?

(UPDATE: a SAFECOM was filed that may be related to the incident above)


Tanker 01 is currently working for the U.S. Forest Service on an exclusive use contract.

Here is a great shot of a CL-215 or 415:

And another:

And, a Single Engine Air Tanker on the Paint Mine Fire three miles northwest of Nephi, Utah

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The demise of the Minden Air BAe-146 program

Minden Air Corp aircraft BAe-146 T-46 T-55
Left to right: Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google Street View, April, 2015. Tanker 55 was damaged in 2012 when it landed with only partially lowered landing gear possibly due to a hydraulic system failure.

For more than 15 years Minden Air Corp has been working on the concept of transitioning from their Korean War vintage P2V air tankers to a jet, the BAe-146. They acquired two or three of them and had nearly completed their work on what was going to be Air Tanker 46 when they ran out of money. Problems with hydraulic systems led to landing gear failures on two P2Vs, T-48 and T-55, taking out Minden’s last two operational air tankers, which no doubt affected their incoming revenue stream. Thankfully there were no serious injuries reported in those two accidents, unlike the crash of the company’s T-99 on October 3, 2003 that killed the two pilots, Carl Dolbeare , 54 and John Attardo, 51. A lookout staffing a fire tower saw that P2V fly into a cloud bank as it was preparing to land at San Bernardino. It did not emerge and shortly thereafter they saw what appeared to be smoke at the top of the cloud. The NTSB described it as “controlled flight into mountainous terrain”. The two pilots had a combined total of more than 15,000 flight hours.

In October AvGeek filmed a report about Minden Air Corp at the Minden Airport 45 miles south of Reno, Nevada.

Tim Cristy, Flight Operations for Minden, said in the video when explaining why the conversion of T-46 came to a stop, “We ran out of money. Well, the engineering got expensive as all get-out”.

We attempted to call Mr. Christy and Minden’s CEO, Len Parker, to get more information but the number we had used before no longer works.

The T-46 project had progressed to conducting a grid test, which involves dropping retardant over a grid of more than 3,000 cups on the ground. In the video Mr. Cristy said the test went well. We are not sure if the aircraft ever received a Supplemental Type Certificate from the FAA which is a major hurdle to overcome in addition to approval from the Interagency Airtanker Board. After that they would have had to deal with the bewildering and unpredictable Forest Service contracting system before they ever received a dime from their large monetary investment.

retardant tank inside Minden's T-46 air tanker
The retardant tank inside Minden’s T-46. Screenshot from the AvGeek video.

The video below, published June 17, 2014, shows T-46 making its first test drops of water and retardant.

minden air corp bae-146 p2v air tanker 46
Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google, June, 2018.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Brian.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

Air Spray tests their BAe-146 air tanker

The aircraft appears to be nearing the completion of its 5-year conversion

Air Tanker 170 making test drop
Air Spray’s Air Tanker 170 making a test drop at Fox Field in September, 2018. Screen shot from the VMC Aviation Video below.

Today we learned about two videos that were shot in September as Air Spray was putting their BAe-146 air tanker through the grid test at Fox Field in Southern California. The test involves repeatedly dropping retardant over a grid of hundreds of cups on the ground. The amount in each cup is measured to determine the quantity of retardant and the uniformity of the pattern.

Air Spray has been working on this aircraft since at least March of 2014 when we visited their hangar in Chico, California. At that time the company was hoping to complete the conversion of the airliner into an air tanker by the end of that year. In March of this year they demonstrated it dropping water at the Aerial Firefighting Conference at Sacramento.

The aircraft has an unusual vinyl wrap — a forest scene on the aft section which certainly can’t be mistaken for another air tanker. It remains to be seen if the images of vegetation turn out to be camouflage, making it difficult to be seen by other aircraft when it is flying close to the ground.  The “N” number is hard to read (it’s N907AS) but that could be easily fixed.

These videos were shot by VMC Aviation Videos in September at the grid test for Tanker 170. The first one is very unusual, showing four drops on the same screen and then repeats them in slow motion. The other includes a lot of taxiing, but also has several drops.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Marcel.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

Videos of air tanker drops at the Britania Mountain Fire

The lightning-caused fire has burned over 32,000 acres eight miles northwest of Wheatland, Wyoming

A BAe-146 drops on the Britania Mountain Fire. A screen shot from the video below which was uploaded August 30, 2018.

Brenton Soule shot these videos at the Britania Mountain Fire in southeast Wyoming. They were uploaded to Facebook August 30, 2018.

I noticed that the audio was more intense than in most air tanker videos… probably because he was about as close as you can get to the aircraft while still remaining safely out of the drop zone.

The air tankers could be the ones photographed at Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport (JEFFCO) September 2, 2018. Above we see a C-130 and below, a BAe-146.

Wildfire Today has more information about the Britania Mountain Fire which has burned over 32,000 acres eight miles northwest of Wheatland, Wyoming.

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Four of Neptune’s BAe-146 air tankers are deployed

Another five are at Missoula, MT and Alamagordo, NM

Above: Three of Neptune Aviation’s BAe-146’s at Missoula, May 25, 2018.

Like the other operators of large air tankers, Neptune Aviation is finishing the necessary off-season work on their fleet and are putting some of them to work. The company has a total of nine BAe-146 jet-powered air tankers. The conversions from airliners to air tankers is complete and they have no others waiting to be transformed.

When I visited Neptune’s facilities at Missoula Friday, marketing manager Kevin Condit said four of their tankers are actively working. The company only has four on exclusive use (EU) contracts this year, which is a reduction from 2017 when they had seven BAe-146’s and four P2V’s on EU. All of the P2V air tankers with their two 18-cylinder radial engines and two small jet engines are now retired, and most will find homes in museums. The U.S. Forest Service reduced the number of large air tankers on EU contracts from 20 in 2017 to 13 in 2018.

t-10 Neptune Aviation air tanker wildfire
Tanker 10 on the ramp outside Neptune’s hangar, May 25, 2018.

Neptune air tankers on EU contract this year are numbers 1, 3, 16, and 41. On call when needed (CWN) contracts they have tankers 2, 10, 15, and 40, and one additional BAe-146 without a contract (T-12) according to information provided by the U.S. Forest Service.

Friday two BAe-146’s were parked on the ramp at Missoula, 10 and 12, while two others, 02 and 15, were in the hangar for heavy maintenance.

air brake bae-146 Neptune Aviation air tanker wildfire
The air brake extended on T-12 outside Neptune’s hangar, May 25, 2018.

For years I have wondered why Neptune’s aircraft are adorned with the state flag for Montana, but have no American flag. Mr. Condit explained that the company is proud of Montana, most of their 250 employees live in the state, and, it’s “tradition” for the company to only display the state flag on their aircraft. However inside their main hangar they have both hanging from the ceiling.

Neptune Aviation air tanker wildfire hangar
Tankers 02 and 15 in Neptune’s hangar for heavy maintenance, May 25, 2018.

Neptune has a contract to refurbish the C-23B Sherpa aircraft that the U.S. Forest Service acquired from the U.S. Army. Up to 15 were authorized to be transferred and as of today Neptune is working on their seventh, with the eighth soon to follow. It is possible that the remaining Sherpas may only be used for parts, Mr. Condit said.

Sherpa Neptune Aviation air tanker wildfire
One of the Sherpas that Neptune is refurbishing for the U.S. Forest Service.

This year we are attempting to get photos of the maintenance support vehicles that follow air tankers around from base to base. Neptune is changing their thinking, and is moving from trailers pulled by trucks to large van-type vehicles without a trailer. Mr. Condit said the maintenance personnel like them better because they are more nimble and easier to maneuver at tanker bases and motel parking lots. I asked if they ever carried a spare engine and he said no. If an engine suffers a bird strike, for example, which is more common than you’d think, they can ferry the BAe-146 back to Missoula on three engines, replace it overnight, and get the tanker back to its base the next day.

Mercedes support truck Neptune Aviation air tanker wildfire
Two of Neptune’s maintenance support trucks.

Continue reading “Four of Neptune’s BAe-146 air tankers are deployed”

2017 was a busy year for air tankers

In spite of that, the numbers of air tankers and helicopters are being slashed

Above: A water-scooping air tanker, a CL-415, at Sacramento, March 12, 2018.

In our notes from the Aerial Firefighting conference HERE and HERE, we included information about how some air tankers were busier than usual in 2017:

  • Ron Hooper, CEO of Neptune Aviation, said their air tankers in 2016 averaged 180 hours while working on wildfires. In 2017 that increased to 276 hours each.
  • Rick Hatton of 10 Tanker Air Carrier, said each of their three DC-10s averaged about 300 hours on fires in 2017, which is more than usual.
  • Shawna Legarza, the USFS Director of Fire and Aviation, said the two Aero-Flite CL-415 scooping air tankers that were on exclusive use (EU) USFS contracts in 2017 each had over 400 hours of fire flight time.

After we reported the information above, Jason Robinson, the Chief CL-415 pilot for Aero-Flite contacted us to supply more details. He generally  confirmed the numbers reported  by Ms. Legarza and said their two EU and two CWN CL-415’s averaged 410 hours each. In July and August alone the four scoopers flew 1,036 hours. The company brought in extra staffing to provide seven-day coverage and manage pilot fatigue. He said that in 2017, 12 Canadian CL-415’s and CL-215’s worked in California and Montana.

Mr. Robinson said they have operated CL-415’s in Alaska for up to 12 hours a day by double-crewing the aircraft.

Due to a reduction in the federal firefighting budget by the Administration and Congress, there will be no scoopers on the EU list this year. Some are still on a CWN contract, but they may or may not be available if the USFS Calls them When Needed. The large air tankers are being cut from 20 to 13 while the large Type 1 helicopters have been reduced from 34 to 28.

Tanker 170 debuts at Aerial Firefighting Conference

It has a CWN contract but still needs to take a grid test and be approved by the Interagency Airtanker Board.

Above: Air tanker 170 makes a demonstration drop at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

(Originally published at 9:55 p.m. PDT March 12, 2018)

(I am currently at the Aerial Firefighting North America 2018 conference in Sacramento. This venue provides a fire hose of information about fighting fires from the air. Over the coming days we will be posting articles generated here.)


It usually takes much longer to convert an aircraft into an air tanker than initially thought. Four years ago after the Aerial Firefighting North America 2014 conference in Sacramento, Ravi Saip (General Manager) and Paul Lane (Vice President and COO) of Air Spray gave me a tour of the BAe-146 they had just started working on. The interior and the cockpit had been gutted, but there was much more that had to be done.

Fast forward to today, March 12, 2018 when the aircraft, now morphed into an air tanker, made a demonstration drop at Sacramento McClellan Airport in front of a crowd of spectators at the 2018 version of the Aerial Firefighting conference.

Air tanker 170 BAe-146
Air tanker 170 at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

The aircraft holds 3,000 gallons in a gravity-powered tank, like the other BAe-146’s and RJ85’s operated by Aero Flite and Neptune, but it looks very different. Some of the more recently developed air tankers have very distinct non-traditional livery, such as the 747 and 737. Air Spray has taken it a notch higher, also using a vinyl wrap, but their version has a forest scene on the aft section. It certainly can’t be mistaken for another air tanker. The “N” number is hard to read (it’s N907AS) but that could be easily fixed.

Air tanker 170 BAe-146
A drawing of the retardant tank on air tanker 170 at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.
Air tanker 170 BAe-146 tank
The retardant tank on air tanker 170 at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

I appreciate the efforts of the designers of automobile bodies and aircraft livery that create something that is not like all of the others that are on the road or in the air — like the Plymouth Prowler, the Chevrolet SSR truck, and the Chrysler PT Cruiser. That does not mean I would buy one, but there is something to be said for not being boring.

Air tanker 170 BAe-146
Air tanker 170 at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

In 2015 the U.S. Forest Service awarded call when needed contracts for 22 large air tankers. The interesting thing about that list was — at least half of them did not exist, or at least they were years away from being converted into air tankers. Air Spray, Neptune, Coulson, 10 Tanker, and Aero Flite have all benefited as their aircraft slowly made the transitions into reality. Air Spray’s N907AS is the latest.

Air tanker 170 BAe-146
Air tanker 170 at MCC March 12, 2018. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

But Tanker 190 still has to prove itself, and a grid test is on its calendar in April along with the other steps on the way to approval by the Interagency Airtanker Board.

In addition to this aircraft, Air Spray owns four other BAe-146’s. Two of those are currently being converted into air tankers.

Air tanker 170 BAe-146
Air Spray personnel at MCC March 12, 2018. L to R: Dennis Murray, Josh Pavia, Michael Young, Lowell Slatter, Robert Maggetti, Brian Baldridge, Dennis Chrystian, Heather Jay, Paul Lane, Ravi Saip.