This video has been out for a couple of years but check it out if you enjoy a pilot’s eye view from a P2V flying around forest fires a few hundred feet off the ground. If you have a fast internet connection and a medium to large-sized screen, bump up the quality on the video to 4K. It was uploaded to YouTube by Bob Webb in 2016.
For more than 15 years Minden Air Corp has been working on the concept of transitioning from their Korean War vintage P2V air tankers to a jet, the BAe-146. They acquired two or three of them and had nearly completed their work on what was going to be Air Tanker 46 when they ran out of money. Problems with hydraulic systems led to landing gear failures on two P2Vs, T-48 and T-55, taking out Minden’s last two operational air tankers, which no doubt affected their incoming revenue stream. Thankfully there were no serious injuries reported in those two accidents, unlike the crash of the company’s T-99 on October 3, 2003 that killed the two pilots, Carl Dolbeare , 54 and John Attardo, 51. A lookout staffing a fire tower saw that P2V fly into a cloud bank as it was preparing to land at San Bernardino. It did not emerge and shortly thereafter they saw what appeared to be smoke at the top of the cloud. The NTSB described it as “controlled flight into mountainous terrain”. The two pilots had a combined total of more than 15,000 flight hours.
In October AvGeek filmed a report about Minden Air Corp at the Minden Airport 45 miles south of Reno, Nevada.
Tim Cristy, Flight Operations for Minden, said in the video when explaining why the conversion of T-46 came to a stop, “We ran out of money. Well, the engineering got expensive as all get-out”.
We attempted to call Mr. Christy and Minden’s CEO, Len Parker, to get more information but the number we had used before no longer works.
The T-46 project had progressed to conducting a grid test, which involves dropping retardant over a grid of more than 3,000 cups on the ground. In the video Mr. Cristy said the test went well. We are not sure if the aircraft ever received a Supplemental Type Certificate from the FAA which is a major hurdle to overcome in addition to approval from the Interagency Airtanker Board. After that they would have had to deal with the bewildering and unpredictable Forest Service contracting system before they ever received a dime from their large monetary investment.
The video below, published June 17, 2014, shows T-46 making its first test drops of water and retardant.
Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Brian. Typos or errors, report them HERE.
Mr. Condit said T-14 and T-44 are tucked away at Neptune’s hangar in New Mexico. Optimistically they might fly one of them in 2019 at one or more airshows but no details have been worked out yet.
Neptune plans on rebuilding the P2V version of Tanker 12 (as opposed to the current BAe-146 version) for a static display at the National Museum of Forest Service History near the Missoula International Airport. The aircraft has not flown for years after having been relegated to “boneyard” status, stripped of parts to keep the others flying. It will be rebuilt and restored to be a part of the outdoor exhibit at the museum. The timing for the rebuild is 2019-2020.
The two P2Vs that will be at or near the Missoula Airport, T-10 and T-12, will be only about a mile apart, but Mr. Condit said neither was airworthy, and Neptune preferred to see them preserved rather than scrapped. In 2012 Neptune discovered a 24-inch crack in a wing spar and skin on T-10, causing the FAA to issue an Emergency Airworthiness Directive requiring all P2V airplanes to be inspected within 24 hours of receiving the directive.
While in Missoula this week I got a couple of photos of Tanker 10, the retired P2V that is now the “gate guard” at the airport.
When it was placed in that position in June of 2017, Kevin Condit, Neptune’s Marketing Manager said, “Neptune and the Missoula aviation community have a very long history, and with the Smokejumpers and the Forest Service in Missoula, they asked Neptune Aviation if Tanker 10 could be the gate guard.”
Above: P2V on the Whoopup Fire southeast of Newcastle, Wyoming, 2011 — flying off into the sunset. Photo by Bill Gabbert
(Originally published at 8:55 p.m. MDT March 23, 2018)
In 1947 the first P2V Neptune flew for the U.S. Navy serving in the maritime patrol and anti-submarine role. In 2017, 70 years later, the last P2V’s to work as air tankers in the United States retired. As the U.S. Forest Service contract for what they called “legacy” air tankers expired, Neptune Aviation transtioned their fleet of war birds to aircraft several decades younger, jet-powered BAe-146 airliners. After working out some early bugs with the completely redesigned retardant delivery system, the newer quad-jets have performed admirably.
Neptune announced today that it has found new homes for its venerable fleet of P2V’s.
“Over the last two years 14 different organizations submitted official proposals to Neptune Aviation to acquire our retiring P2V airtankers,” according to Dan Snyder, Neptune Aviation Services’ Chief Operating Officer. “After a significate amount of coordination with museums and airports I’m happy to announce the locations for the retired P2V fleet.”
–Alamogordo Airport/ALM (Alamogordo, New Mexico) N203EV (former Evergreen Tanker 142)
The P2V began aerial firefighting services during the 1970’s, when the U.S. Navy began to phase the aircraft out of service. Missoula based Neptune Aviation Services has operated the P2V since 1993. In fact, Neptune had been the largest remaining civil or military operator of the aircraft, with as many as 10 under US Forest Service (USFS) contracts in a single year.
Above: Neptune’s Tanker 05, a P2V, makes a red, white, and blue water drop at Missoula, September 30, 2017. Photo by Terry Cook.
(Originally published at 5:30 p.m. MDT October 1, 2017)
Yesterday Neptune Aviation Services officially retired the last of their P2V air tankers in a ceremony at the Missoula airport. This year the company had four of the former submarine hunters on contract that were built between 1954 and 1957 — Tankers 05, 06, 14 and 44. In 2012 ten P2Vs were on contract with the U.S. Forest Service operated by Neptune and Minden.
Neptune planned a fairly elaborate program Saturday with prize drawings, several water drops, numerous food trucks, a water drop from successive tanks with red, white, and blue water, and a formation flyover of their last four P2Vs on contract.
Neptune has been operating the P2V air tankers for 24 years. Many pilots and warbird fans enjoy flying, seeing, or hearing the aircraft and the throaty roar of its two 18-cylinder radial engines. When extra power is needed during takeoff or after a 2,000-gallon drop to climb out of a canyon it can enlist the help of two small jet engines farther out on the wings.
Greg Jones, Program Manager for Neptune Aviation, said the tankers will be taken to museums across America.
The planes are going to be stored short term in Alma Gorda, New Mexico. We will ferry them down the next couple weeks and then they will be dispersed throughout museums across the United States.
In 2009, working with Tronos, Neptune began converting jet airliners, BAe-146-200s, into air tankers, adding a 3,000-gallon retardant tank. In 2017 they had seven of them on exclusive use contract.
To our knowledge the jets have not suffered any catastrophic failures or major incidents since they began dropping on wildfires. In the first half of this decade P2Vs were involved in a number of troublesome landings and in one case a crash while dropping on the White Rock Fire near the Utah/Nevada state line, killing all three crewmembers. Two P2Vs operated by Minden encountered landing gear failures, and those aircraft have not been seen over a fire since the incidents. Other fatal crashes occurred in 2008 and 2009.
As many of you know, 2017 marks the final fire season for our beloved fleet of Neptune P2V airtankers. On Saturday, September 30 from 1:00-6:00 pm, Neptune Aviation will pay tribute to these historic aircraft at our Missoula campus and we would be honored if you would join us. We’ve planned an afternoon chock full of adventure, including flyovers, water drops, static displays, and more.
Beginning tomorrow [July 28], we will be posting our favorite P2V pics from over the years-photos YOU have graciously shared with us! And just for fun, any photo submissions between now and September 30 will automatically enter you in a drawing for a limited edition, custom P2V model. Send your pics to MEDIA@NEPTUNEAVIATION.COM and keep an eye on our FB page for more event details!
The YouTube account of Bob Webb has a high quality 4K video shot from the cockpits of P2V air tankers in 2016. I doubt if you’ll be able to appreciate the resolution on a mobile device, so check it out on a large monitor if possible. (When you click on the “gear” icon at bottom-right there are eight choices ranging from 144p to 2,160p. Go for the gusto, with 2,160!)
In spite of the wide angle lens on the camera at times you can see the lead plane out ahead, a little white dot, release smoke to mark the target. There is no view of the retardant being dropped, but a couple of times you can see the shadow of the drop.