A day in the Northwest dropping fire retardant from a P2V — pilot’s eye view

view from P2V dropping fire retardant
Screengrab from the video.

This video has been out for a couple of years but check it out if you enjoy a pilot’s eye view from a P2V flying around forest fires a few hundred feet off the ground. If you have a fast internet connection and a medium to large-sized screen, bump up the quality on the video to 4K. It was uploaded to YouTube by Bob Webb in 2016.

Be sure and check out the drop at 10:32.

The last of the working P2V air tankers retired September 30, 2017.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Evan.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

The demise of the Minden Air BAe-146 program

Minden Air Corp aircraft BAe-146 T-46 T-55
Left to right: Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google Street View, April, 2015. Tanker 55 was damaged in 2012 when it landed with only partially lowered landing gear possibly due to a hydraulic system failure.

For more than 15 years Minden Air Corp has been working on the concept of transitioning from their Korean War vintage P2V air tankers to a jet, the BAe-146. They acquired two or three of them and had nearly completed their work on what was going to be Air Tanker 46 when they ran out of money. Problems with hydraulic systems led to landing gear failures on two P2Vs, T-48 and T-55, taking out Minden’s last two operational air tankers, which no doubt affected their incoming revenue stream. Thankfully there were no serious injuries reported in those two accidents, unlike the crash of the company’s T-99 on October 3, 2003 that killed the two pilots, Carl Dolbeare , 54 and John Attardo, 51. A lookout staffing a fire tower saw that P2V fly into a cloud bank as it was preparing to land at San Bernardino. It did not emerge and shortly thereafter they saw what appeared to be smoke at the top of the cloud. The NTSB described it as “controlled flight into mountainous terrain”. The two pilots had a combined total of more than 15,000 flight hours.

In October AvGeek filmed a report about Minden Air Corp at the Minden Airport 45 miles south of Reno, Nevada.

Tim Cristy, Flight Operations for Minden, said in the video when explaining why the conversion of T-46 came to a stop, “We ran out of money. Well, the engineering got expensive as all get-out”.

We attempted to call Mr. Christy and Minden’s CEO, Len Parker, to get more information but the number we had used before no longer works.

The T-46 project had progressed to conducting a grid test, which involves dropping retardant over a grid of more than 3,000 cups on the ground. In the video Mr. Cristy said the test went well. We are not sure if the aircraft ever received a Supplemental Type Certificate from the FAA which is a major hurdle to overcome in addition to approval from the Interagency Airtanker Board. After that they would have had to deal with the bewildering and unpredictable Forest Service contracting system before they ever received a dime from their large monetary investment.

retardant tank inside Minden's T-46 air tanker
The retardant tank inside Minden’s T-46. Screenshot from the AvGeek video.

The video below, published June 17, 2014, shows T-46 making its first test drops of water and retardant.

minden air corp bae-146 p2v air tanker 46
Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google, June, 2018.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Brian.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

Final flights for the P2V air tanker retirees

Seven of the air tankers will be on permanent public display

P2V air tanker 10 gate guard missoula airport
Tanker 10 is the Gate Guard at Missoula International Airport.

Now that Neptune Aviation’s fleet of P2Vs have retired from active firefighting, the aircraft destined for museums have all flown for the last time and arrived at their final resting places.

Kevin Condit, the Marketing Manager at Neptune, updated us on their locations, along with links to news stories with more information.

In addition to Tanker 10, the gate guard at Missoula Airport, here are the other locations, last flight dates, and links:

Tanker 05
Location: Glendive, Montana (Glendive Airport)
Final flight: August 6, 2018
KXGN
Ranger Review

Tanker 07
Location: Paso Robles, California (Estrella Warbird Museum)
Final Flight: August 8, 2018
Estrella Warbirds Museum
Paso Robles Press

Tanker 45
Location: Belleville, Michigan (Yankee Air Museum)
Final Flight: September 5, 2018
Yankee Air Museum

Tanker 43
Location: San Diego, California (San Diego Air & Space Museum)
Final Flight: September 7, 2018
San Diego Air and Space Museum

Tanker 06
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon (Tanker 61 Memorial)
Final Flight: September 9, 2018
Herald News
Herald News, second article

Mr. Condit said T-14 and T-44 are tucked away at Neptune’s hangar in New Mexico. Optimistically they might fly one of them in 2019 at one or more airshows but no details have been worked out yet.

Neptune plans on rebuilding the P2V version of Tanker 12 (as opposed to the current BAe-146 version) for a static display at the National Museum of Forest Service History near the Missoula International Airport. The aircraft has not flown for years after having been relegated to “boneyard” status, stripped of parts to keep the others flying. It will be rebuilt and restored to be a part of the outdoor exhibit at the museum. The timing for the rebuild is 2019-2020.

The two P2Vs that will be at or near the Missoula Airport, T-10 and T-12, will be only about a mile apart, but Mr. Condit said neither was airworthy, and Neptune preferred to see them preserved rather than scrapped. In 2012 Neptune discovered a 24-inch crack in a wing spar and skin on T-10, causing the FAA to issue an Emergency Airworthiness Directive requiring all P2V airplanes to be inspected within 24 hours of receiving the directive.

Tanker 10 is the gate guard at Missoula International Airport

P2V air tanker 10 gate guard missoula airport

While in Missoula this week I got a couple of photos of Tanker 10, the retired P2V that is now the “gate guard” at the airport.

When it was placed in that position in June of 2017, Kevin Condit, Neptune’s Marketing Manager said, “Neptune and the Missoula aviation community have a very long history, and with the Smokejumpers and the Forest Service in Missoula, they asked Neptune Aviation if Tanker 10 could be the gate guard.”

All of the P2V air tankers with their two 18-cylinder radial engines and two small jet engines are now retired, and most will find homes in museums.

P2V air tanker 10 gate guard missoula airport

Six P2V air tankers’ last deployment — to retirement homes

The aircraft are going to their final resting place 71 years after the model was first introduced to the U.S. Navy.

P2V on the Whoopup Fire

Above: P2V on the Whoopup Fire southeast of Newcastle, Wyoming, 2011 — flying off into the sunset. Photo by Bill Gabbert

(Originally published at 8:55 p.m. MDT March 23, 2018)

In 1947 the first P2V Neptune flew for the U.S. Navy serving in the maritime patrol and anti-submarine role. In 2017, 70 years later, the last P2V’s to work as air tankers in the United States retired. As the U.S. Forest Service contract for what they called “legacy” air tankers expired, Neptune Aviation transtioned their fleet of war birds to aircraft several decades younger, jet-powered BAe-146 airliners. After working out some early bugs with the completely redesigned retardant delivery system, the newer quad-jets have performed admirably.

Neptune  announced today that it has found new homes for its venerable fleet of P2V’s.

Neptune P2V Fleet
Neptune’s P2V fleet at Alamogordo, New Mexico, March 2018. Photo by Dan Snyder.

“Over the last two years 14 different organizations submitted official proposals to Neptune Aviation to acquire our retiring P2V airtankers,” according to Dan Snyder, Neptune Aviation Services’ Chief Operating Officer. “After a significate amount of coordination with museums and airports I’m happy to announce the locations for the retired P2V fleet.”

–Alamogordo Airport/ALM (Alamogordo, New Mexico)
N203EV (former Evergreen Tanker 142)

–Estrella Warbirds Museum (Paso Robles, California)
http://www.ewarbirds.org
Tanker 07 (P2V-5)

–Glendive Airport/GDV (Glendive, Montana)
Tanker 05 (P2V-5)

–T61 Memorial & Klamath Falls Air Base (Lakeview, Oregon)
Tanker 06 (P2V-5)

–Yankee Air Museum (Belleville, Michigan)
http://yankeeairmuseum.org/
Tanker 45 (P2V-7)

–San Diego Air & Space Museum (San Diego California)
http://sandiegoairandspace.org/
Tanker 43 (P2V-7)

The P2V began aerial firefighting services during the 1970’s, when the U.S. Navy began to phase the aircraft out of service. Missoula based Neptune Aviation Services has operated the P2V since 1993. In fact, Neptune had been the largest remaining civil or military operator of the aircraft, with as many as 10 under US Forest Service (USFS) contracts in a single year.

Photography Prints

Neptune retires their P2V air tankers

Spectators in Missoula enjoyed seeing water drops and flyovers.

Tanker 05 red white blue P2V

Above: Neptune’s Tanker 05, a P2V, makes a red, white, and blue water drop at Missoula, September 30, 2017. Photo by Terry Cook.

(Originally published at 5:30 p.m. MDT October 1, 2017)

Yesterday Neptune Aviation Services officially retired the last of their P2V air tankers in a ceremony at the Missoula airport. This year the company had four of the former submarine hunters on contract that were built between 1954 and 1957 — Tankers 05, 06, 14 and 44. In 2012 ten P2Vs were on contract with the U.S. Forest Service operated by Neptune and Minden.

Neptune planned a fairly elaborate program Saturday with prize drawings, several water drops, numerous food trucks, a water drop from successive tanks with red, white, and blue water, and a formation flyover of their last four P2Vs on contract.

Neptune has been operating the P2V air tankers for 24 years. Many pilots and warbird fans enjoy flying, seeing, or hearing the aircraft and the throaty roar of its two 18-cylinder radial engines. When extra power is needed during takeoff or after a 2,000-gallon drop to climb out of a canyon it can enlist the help of two small jet engines farther out on the wings.

In 2012 the company started its retirement program for the P2Vs when they pulled two of their seven operational P2Vs from regular service.

Greg Jones, Program Manager for Neptune Aviation,  said the tankers will be taken to museums across America.

The planes are going to be stored short term in Alma Gorda, New Mexico. We will ferry them down the next couple weeks and then they will be dispersed throughout museums across the United States.

Art Prints

In 2009, working with Tronos, Neptune began converting jet airliners, BAe-146-200s, into air tankers, adding a 3,000-gallon retardant tank. In 2017 they had seven of them on exclusive use contract.

BAe-146-200 makes first drop
BAe-146-200 makes its first drop October 28, 2009 over Prince Edward island in Canada. Tronos photo.

To our knowledge the jets have not suffered any catastrophic failures or major incidents since they began dropping on wildfires. In the first half of this decade P2Vs were involved in a number of troublesome landings and in one case a crash while dropping on the White Rock Fire near the Utah/Nevada state line, killing all three crewmembers. Two P2Vs operated by Minden encountered landing gear failures, and those aircraft have not been seen over a fire since the incidents. Other fatal crashes occurred in 2008 and 2009.

T-41 Redding
Tanker 41, a BAe-146, lands at Redding August 7, 2014 after dropping on a fire in northwest California.

Neptune plans retirement commemoration for P2V’s

P2v air tanker

Above: A P2V air tanker drops retardant on the Red Canyon Fire 9 miles southwest of Pringle, July 9. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

(Originally published at 5:40 p.m. MDT July 27, 2017)

From Neptune Aviation Services:

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As many of you know, 2017 marks the final fire season for our beloved fleet of Neptune P2V airtankers. On Saturday, September 30 from 1:00-6:00 pm, Neptune Aviation will pay tribute to these historic aircraft at our Missoula campus and we would be honored if you would join us. We’ve planned an afternoon chock full of adventure, including flyovers, water drops, static displays, and more.

Beginning tomorrow [July 28], we will be posting our favorite P2V pics from over the years-photos YOU have graciously shared with us! And just for fun, any photo submissions between now and September 30 will automatically enter you in a drawing for a limited edition, custom P2V model. Send your pics to MEDIA@NEPTUNEAVIATION.COM and keep an eye on our FB page for more event details!

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Art Prints

Fly with a P2V air tanker in 4K

The YouTube account of Bob Webb has a high quality 4K video shot from the cockpits of P2V air tankers in 2016. I doubt if you’ll be able to appreciate the resolution on a mobile device, so check it out on a large monitor if possible. (When you click on the “gear” icon at bottom-right there are eight choices ranging from 144p to 2,160p. Go for the gusto, with 2,160!)

In spite of the wide angle lens on the camera at times you can see the lead plane out ahead, a little white dot, release smoke to mark the target. There is no view of the retardant being dropped, but a couple of times you can see the shadow of the drop.

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via @thesnowbirds